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Mike

Apple Pie Hill Fire Tower Closed to the Public

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They just keep taking more, and more, and more. When will it end?

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Just now, HEAVYMETAL said:

They just keep taking more, and more, and more. When will it end?

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I blame hillbillies and teenagers more than the govt on this one. People treat public space like shit and then get pissed when it gets closed.

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I blame hillbillies and teenagers more than the govt on this one. People treat public space like shit and then get pissed when it gets closed.

I absolutely agree. I also think the government uses these situations to further their agenda of a total shut down. I said it back in the JKO days that this was coming. Everyone told me that there was no way this could happen because it's public land. Look at the amount of trails that were just shut down in the last year. Does anyone honestly think they will stop there? I've been going back there since I was kid in the late 80s with my dad and his friends. The amount of trails then compared to now is depressing. Believe it or not there is actually some decent (off camber) wheeling in NJ. Unfortunately it's just impossible to get to and the risk of fines and impoundment makes it not worth it.

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29 minutes ago, HEAVYMETAL said:

I absolutely agree. I also think the government uses these situations to further their agenda of a total shut down. I said it back in the JKO days that this was coming. Everyone told me that there was no way this could happen because it's public land. Look at the amount of trails that were just shut down in the last year. Does anyone honestly think they will stop there? I've been going back there since I was kid in the late 80s with my dad and his friends. The amount of trails then compared to now is depressing. Believe it or not there is actually some decent (off camber) wheeling in NJ. Unfortunately it's just impossible to get to and the risk of fines and impoundment makes it not worth it.

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It becomes a simple cost benefit analysis when they're paying to clean up all that trash and graffiti regardless of a conservation agenda.  You combine that with the lack of enforcement and it's just not going to stay open

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13 hours ago, rmm said:

It becomes a simple cost benefit analysis when they're paying to clean up all that trash and graffiti regardless of a conservation agenda.  You combine that with the lack of enforcement and it's just not going to stay open

Or they'll realize that they can't enforce it, and afford to regrade roads after every winter, or stop Mother Nature from turning a bog back to a bog.

The pendulum will swing.  

As mentioned above, there were plenty of people doing short sighted, stupid stuff back there.  If they focus on the folks that dump stuff and lighten up on the folks that want to enjoy the trails, a balance can be reached.

I realize that many trails have closed.  I'm OK with some being closed if it means that some bird or frog gets to keep, keeping on.  Not all.  Not water on a trail is a vernal pool, but something that respects the nature and gives me access to enjoy it.  If some Prius owner wants to do the same thing, they need to understand that it isn't a highway, it's a dirt trail in a bog.

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You think the pendulum will swing back.  I think the pendulum will keep swinging and fly off the string.  If it is too expensive to maintain the trails they will be closed and barricaded.  This is NJ, the land of "No."  But it's not just NJ either; it's a nationwide direction.  Some environmentalist lobby argues that wheeling is killing some species of frog, rat or bird and writes a bunch of editorials.  People who's only interaction with nature is to watch PBS and read the NY Times Sunday magazine are much more likely to sympathize with saving the environment than a bunch of yahoo's in lifted Jeeps.  

In terms of the wildlife, realistically, if the frogs, birds and rats haven't been driven to extinction yet, what evidence is there to believe that continued use of the same trails is going to make a difference?  The trails don't even go most places in the pines.  There's almost 5M acres of pinelands.  Surely this wildlife exists more than in some puddle on E. Stokes Rd?

But it's an argument 4-wheeler's can't win in the long term.  Because, to the masses, an editorial in the Sunday paper showing lifted Jeeps on muddy tires dripping mud screams redneck, so when they hear 4-wheelers are harming the environment they aren't going to consider the other side.  

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